TRANSCRIPT

Leaders Journal Ep11: HR Unfiltered (Feat. Jennifer Loh)

*Text taken from YouTube captions*

you you don't know whether you're doing

okay or not and many times leaders could

sometimes be so caught up with uh with

the rat race that they forgot you know

to connect back

with with their teams

[Music]

all right welcome everybody so to the

leaders journal my name is jason i'm

your leadership coach and today in this

episode we have jennifer uh from hr and

for this segment is really the idea of

hr unfiltered we really want to find out

what's happening in the industry uh

really get experts and thought leaders

in the hr space so jennifer do introduce

yourself

hi uh thanks jason that's very kind of

you for having me here um hi everyone um

hi my name is jennifer lowe forget about

that long sun and that's my marriage

name but professionally i think it's

easier when people know me by my maiden

name so at present i am a global hr

director for gulf oil marine

uh which is uh uh currently based in

singapore and uh we are basically a

lubricant uh company lubricant business

the supply lubricants to the marine

sector globally covering about 10

countries

so basically i'm still a rookie in this

organization i only joined them like

last august before that i was with a

sunset group which is the solar

renewable and gemstone many of you have

actually heard of them so being with

them four and a half years decide that

you know i want to explain the

opportunities that came by so i think i

was quite fortunate

now i have been in the hr profession for

wow uh probably coming 20 years

wow coming decades my goodness yeah

coming 20 years but it didn't start off

as that i started off

right from you know after police

you know doing sales and marketing and

business but it's more corporate

training so that was when

um you know

20 30 years ago is known as personnel

management that was what hr was

apparently known for uh but it was

interesting when you know when when when

i get to talk to you know the training

managers the personnel managers are

organized so you know it's about people

development which you know it sparks and

inspires something i up to today i can't

quite put a finger to that one to what

it is but that the interest becomes very

evident about you know nut sharing and

growing people

so um took me but took me quite a while

about nearly 10 years

before i

decided that you know i to change and

switch my career to hr

uh then

the rest is history

wow interesting so like um i always

think about hr and hr is really the idea

of

developing expanding and maximizing

human capital so i'm always curious like

how on earth do people actually choose

hr like why like for you like what is

your origin story like did you like one

day it's like okay you're doing all

these things hey i want to be in hr what

is it for you

yeah very good question

okay

i can't speak for everyone else i think

everyone has a different

aspiration when they take on this role

of course um

there are some which i do hear that oh

they think hr is a fairly easy job

and you know is is is predictable so

that is how they decide to pick this

this profession but i think for the most

of us

we're in this for a long reason

first thing first i think we are very

people-centric and i think i think that

is one of the most

you know given criteria to be in this

profession

right

um and

for me like i said earlier you know we

talked when i when i started to have a

very good relationship with us last time

called personal manager

or training managers during when i was

doing sales and business development for

corporate trainings so you know you hear

about them talking about you know

employees

developing their welfare i mean he's

still very greek at that point in time

you know but hr during back then 30

years back is just

recruitment payroll

that's it you know

admin yes very administrative

uh but sadly it's still regarded as

quite administrative profession today in

our culture uh which that means that

there's a lot of room to to develop

further but we will go into that later

so for me you know the nurturing of

people growing someone from the ground i

remember

i uh hyatt was one of the customers

you know that one of my collections and

we got to know that the team of hr we we

found out that a lot of their their

their staff their employees you know

started one of them very very distinct

to me up to today i can remember started

as a club wasn't very well educated

then uh you know after you know i think

about two decades or so they

sent her to upgrade herself for further

studies and really groom her and

then by then you know she became a

director of one of the departments so

imagine a club to a director it's a long

process it's amazing it's absolutely

awesome so so that that that that was

probably what triggered the interest i

thought hey you know i i i believe in

the continuous learning uh you know

as as part of us okay we have to

continue to learn

um but i at that point in time i have no

idea what is personnel management i

don't know what it's called hr

so so that was what you know got me very

interested to start looking at what

exactly hr or what personal measure was

all about by the time i was about 30 um

i said it was 20 years back

you know i decided okay

i have enough of the sales i think i

want to be in the hr where you know i

can actually have an opportunity to have

an impact on people's life

you know

to create and have the chance

not only to learn myself inspire myself

but inspire others as well to nurture

um because i have actually seen you know

how people just decide that they do not

want to learn they are just happy and

contented and after they become so

obsolete they have challenges trying to

keep up after that

true yes so so that was how i decide

embark on on on that journey um

yeah so

uh

like i said after that the rest of the

next 20 years is a case of trial and

error

i mean i mean retail

fmb

um

you know non-government ngos

uh listed property management firms you

know everything is very very hands-on so

i i think in a sense

um

i have the thought the fortune of

actually had the opportunity to really

hands-on end-to-end a to z of all the

administrative from recruitment to

payroll to tax filing to to to to a lot

of things um i would say in in the

initial phase uh

10

is it 10 years or so yes i think i

suppose around 10 years was very much

trying error and really learning

on my own really learning on my own

and of course

in in the middle of it i managed to

be able to send myself back to

university to study to get a degree

before that was only a diploma so i got

a degree and then decided and

and the more i start reading and

understanding about hr the more i think

i am in the right profession and the

ambition that my ultimate ambition my

ultimate goal and i want to be known how

it's not about my title to be very

honest jason is about the kind of impact

that i manage to create on people's

lives in a positive manner that you know

how many people i can inspire to become

better

than what they expect you know to

achieve more than what they expect that

that is still my goal today

yeah awesome awesome that sounds so

aligned to me um i mean one of my quotes

actually wanted to tattoo this but then

my friend said you better not tattoo it

here

on my arm

unlocking the potential of the human

race i mean the whole idea of like human

capital we don't see it as capital even

though the companies we see it but we

see it as really potential

so much potential and how much of us

in management is really

utilizing maximizing all that potential

and that's the whole idea of hr

i feel personally hr is going to be more

and more into the forefront rather than

the back end last time was all admin and

now it's really are we seeing companies

that hey the number two guy is a hr guy

right the chief people per officer or

chief heart officer right some chinese

companies are like that

so it's really we're trying to push it

and i think um

having you as a thought leader can

really help to push that bar a little

bit more where the importance of hr is

more into the foreground rather than the

background so i really want to hear from

you like in your in your entire

experience right um what are some

lessons learning lessons you've gone

through that really made you as the

leader you are right now like you know

sometimes you fail and all that so what

is it for you of course i fail we all

fail we really do not know everything

that's the first lesson you know you

know you know jason it's very

interesting last week was it last week

yes i don't know two weeks back we had

um

a strategic this week there's seven uh

of us uh ceo or the head of departments

the directors well me inclusive of

different different from sales to

technical supply chain and seattle and

all so we we we were of course you know

given

uh uh uh uh you know a kpi a goal you

know and an objective that we have to

achieve by of course by our hq

so our our week there we are all

supposed to come up with uh you know

strategies you know practical with much

later of course strategies discuss we

learn to

you know be very open we challenge yet

support one another um you know and

enhance on communications and what our

strategy in the next 12 months 24

5 years you know five years this next 10

years is usually a bit ridiculous in

this

world as i think you and i understand

tomorrow what

we is it's difficult to see uh that far

so we look at

uh you know a staggered you know in

short-term wins so so this is what we

were talking about and and the first

thing i always say you know we are

leaders that doesn't make us saints you

know we are flocked we are miserably

flawed okay there's a guarantee

yes that's why that's why we're human

right so i like that point i like the

point the idea of a leader

um really trying to wear that badge of

humility that means you don't have all

the answers and you are always trying

and that is really giving birth to this

audit of innovation even in the business

side by the hr side sometimes it fails

sometimes some of the campaigns that

yeah it doesn't really find sometimes it

does yeah so it's really the i like the

idea of humility

yes that's right so i mean i have

throughout my life um have i'm fortunate

i have had good leaders i would say good

more than the bad ones

but i think

generally a lot of my leaders they are

different right um

all sorts of nationalities for

singaporeans and also all kinds they

they have you know each of them have

good embeds but so far all in all there

are always something i can learn you

know from the good ones of course you

know um

once a while i bum into really nasty

ones but so far nothing

you know

massively terrible and all that but but

you know when what i do is when i when i

observe the saturn how a leader managed

to inspire

um and and and motivate you know people

i well i learned i tried to emulate i

mean i've emulated that that they're

good tricks but of course customized to

my personality and i think throughout

throughout the years of uh leading

different teams they said i have to

admit something you know um

it's you know the autocratic style for

the longest time even decades before has

never really worked

and and you don't get a lot of value out

of the team when when it's a very

top-down kind of management but they

actually can add value to you

unknowingly they themselves are

sometimes not aware of the capabilities

abilities you know when you actually you

know empower them you give them little

projects you let them make decisions on

small small initiative you let them

create something you show appreciation

you recognize i know these are cliche

but we are humans okay no matter how how

high

uh we climb or or whether we are rank

and file everyone

we crave a certain emotion affirmation

we want to be recognized for our hard

work and our achievement and we want to

be coached we want to be in nurture and

of course one of the things um as a

leader uh i also realized that you know

the tough part is having the foresight

um you know being being really really

having that that being able to see the

future and and predict not say predict

but at least you you are able to

visualize having the vision what do you

want for hr what what what what do you

envision for company how do you envision

hr in line with the company's business

directions and for the people balancing

the both because you need to balance

both

uh you know at the same time if the

company is not doing well you can't look

after your employees well but if you

don't take care of employees forget

about the company's end result it will

never happen

yes yes yes totally i mean uh whenever i

coach leaders it's the idea that we

always have two pillars it's the results

pillar and the relationships pillar

right

and we need to be good at both and as

leaders sometimes we try an error and i

like what you said about the idea of

like we need to have a vision so for

example really to see where it is and

sometimes really is the best guess right

most of us is like in business you ask

same thing it's really best guess we

don't know what the plan is but we want

to try and um what you said about the

idea that

people

need this idea of autonomy affirmation

they want to try certain things and um

we need to give them the opportunity to

do that

yeah

awesome fantastic thank you thank you

i'm very curious now when it comes to

this idea of hr and you've been here for

so long uh they're good practices and

bad practices right there are many right

so uh i mean the what's happening now

and it's been happening for over i think

five five ten years already the idea of

you know performance reviews you know

sometimes it's like a yearly thing now

they're trying to scrap it make it down

lower and lower so is the idea of what

is the best practices that you focus on

for your personal your or people

development what are some things that

you feel that well these are things that

that i kind of like look out for and i

kind of do and maybe those even if you

can even share with some of the worst

practices that sometimes people will be

like yeah adamant i must do this but

then you'd be thinking like for what it

doesn't work anymore

um

best practices

okay

maybe i'll share what um i have been

doing with my most previous uh

employment at science and here which i'm

trying to emulate the similar success

hopefully but i think i think the the

good thing about my company here is that

i have very great i i have to say

i'm fortunate so far all my ceos has

been wonderful and my current ceo is

absolutely supportive and he is very

very down to earth and he understands

the importance

of you know people you know people are

not just

digits you know

they are our essence they are

we call yes we call them human capital

but i usually

you know we call them talents

or we call them

team members you know that that that the

power of suggestion you know you keep

you know in the email called team

members

and a

talents you know then it's not to

you know

you know implant itself into the mind

subtly you know on everyone so that's

the message and he is very into you know

people people development he believes in

people so i think in that sense you know

i'm fortunate and

the previous ceo as well you know he has

a different uh perspective on people but

the same support so what what what i i

believe is that we you know it

one of the few practices that uh a few

things which i actually

uh you know guided the leaders is for

starters if we want to

have a you know a good culture of people

development first get the right people

to come in first

so so yes um that you know you need to

hire the right talents now right talents

sadly i i know that uh you know there's

always a lot of talk about hr being data

driven i buy into that but i think you

know it comes he has come to a point

where hr or even

the management have relied over relied

on the data but they neglected to cons

the factor in the uh the fluid factor of

humans humans cannot be quantifiable yes

you can quantify you know attrition rate

return on investment training costs but

what is that supposed to tell you what

about you know the internal motivation

that actually garnered from all these

you know the practices that you have

done is it's impossible to to quantify

or even put a data a number to it so one

of the thing is is um you know to

mitigate all this is to get the right

people now when i talk about right

people we're not talking about a whole

list of criteria competency the wishlist

yeah the wishlist right so

you know one of the things i taught my

leaders

recruitment is like marriage you know

you will not have

someone who will check hundred percent

of your of your criteria you you will

not get that correct or not

totally closely yeah

yeah yeah because we're human beings in

the end

right

we have our we have our mountain peaks

and we have our valley lows so it's just

like that it comes with the package so

so in terms of recruitment that was what

i guided the leaders i said use the 70

30 rule and i'm going to be very upfront

to broadcast here because i tell you it

works because that is how i got my

manager and leader to rethink hiring

otherwise they will constantly be going

around the circles wasting their time

and they can get the the person so we

come about 70 30 we don't just talk

about technical competency we also talk

about behavioral traits we talk about

culture fit right so

a person could be very competent but if

you know in terms of personality

behavioral traits does not fit into the

culture

the the point of the poor guy is going

to be very miserable they can't deliver

come perform and then does the company

suffer as well so

no point so we use the 70 30 which which

is what i i i i guide my leaders and the

managers in the company

so what this is how it works that means

we all have a wish list you know like we

want this candidate to fulfill abcde the

technical and behavioral like this like

100 everything

right and the best attitude always

smiling at work always in high levels of

initiative always being like non-silo

always collaborative share information

never hold it yeah so definitely there's

a wish list but it's impossible

correct so so so that's why um how i

guided is

the 70 now what are the critical the

must have 70. usually the 70 is mostly

the competency part yes

the technical competency and then i

always tell them please don't just have

everything technical you need to

allocate at least

a substantial maybe twenty percent of

the seventy you know in the behavioral

traits like the the the personality

twenty to thirty okay the other elements

may be important

but you need to be prepared as a major

leader invest time in training or at

least send them for training because you

are not going to get someone who checked

out the whole the 100 of the checkbox so

this is exactly how i guide the 70 30

rule the 171 as a must have 30 what is

can be trade can be cultivated

then you know that's that's how they we

redo they rethink their job description

and then they re rethink in terms of

recruitment so far it seems to have

worked quite well so you know i i think

this is this is something which it works

on me anyway so so so i i i'm quite you

know uh happy to broadcast here to

whoever is involved in the in the

recruitment

interesting so so 70 30 just to

understand 70 percent there's always we

most of the time in terms of the drop

roll and all that it's always technical

right most of the time so you're saying

that around 50 is technical the 20 is

behavioral and attitudinal and cultural

things the softer parts the softer part

i would say yes

right yes

yes so

the other 30 the last 30 you mentioned

is things that can be cultivated

can be some technical competencies which

you don't need now can need it one year

later

you know certain behavior okay if the

person you need the possibility very

bubbly for example

well does it have to overly bubbly the

person is you know happy enough and has

the guts to even initiate conversations

you know and it makes effort to to to

even chat and try to connect give the

person a chance why not i mean at some

point you know the company we we send

people for for training we are planning

on you know having more regular

trainings and more like little little

projects to to cultivate to to develop

their uh skills their soft skills so you

know these can be cultivated

yeah yeah so i i think um

i was reading an article so that uh the

idea of decision making you cannot reach

hundred percent you must reach around

seventy percent that's the gut feel and

the thirty percent is things that it

doesn't make sense to do more and more

research because you're wasting time and

all that right so

interesting 70 30 rule very interesting

never thought about that before anything

okay so if that's the best practices

if you have anything i'm just quite

curious any worse practices that you

actually heard about like wow that's

something that maybe you think we should

change

worse practice

yeah

if

okay so far

or things you just don't agree with like

um like for example for me i know

reviews right some of the things like i

feel that annual review is way too long

you want to give feedback once a year

come on we should bring it to as soon as

possible

actually that comes back to one of the

good practices that actually some of

these i'm doing it in my company now

right so uh apart from getting the

talents of course you know the usual

career path create curriculum the usual

but

what you just mentioned like oh annual

performance appraisal once a year for

the rest of the 11 months i don't know

what you know haha i'm doing correct

yeah yeah so i mean

correct you you don't know whether

you're doing okay or not and many at

times leaders could sometimes be so

caught up with uh with the rat race that

they forgot you know to connect back

with with that with the teams and they

are so called once a month just hi how

are you has to work is not connection by

the way that's not how you see it it's

filling up the paper that's it

also the type

so in terms of that comes under a lot on

engagement

yes a communication as okay i take my

company for example

we uh because of virtual uh the cova you

know everything is become very silo and

and and because we are quite global so

we have teams all over and and

and it's always not even on normal time

it's always not easy to keep going

everywhere just to you know have the

face to face

um uh interaction right so and kobe

doesn't help out anyway so he became

very silo correct so um what what i've

been you know inputting like uh

communication and and

communication in form of engagement

coffee chats breakfast ceos and

trying to also guiding

managers and leaders on listening ear

communication is two way not one way

you know and and that involves

for example

don't just wait for once a year then

give appraisal right i know you are very

busy maybe every three months sit down

with your team members even virtually

it's fine as to how they're doing give

the regular two-way feedback not just

the leader to the team but the team also

feedback a leader i think you know maybe

this

i'm not comfortable with how you're

doing this and that so

so it goes back to earlier stage where

you know one other question you're

asking about while as a leader one thing

i learned is that we leaders we are all

full of flaws we are not flawless and we

need to accept that

uh and be open to even criticism to how

you know we are as leaders so so the reg

the the regular feedback the you know um

affirmation the appreciation when job is

well done if job is not well done you

know quickly address you know how how

you know uh uh you know we can

as a leader i can help you know what

what we can do

so there is always this balance uh over

here uh so i would say i think the the

some of the good practices we talk about

i mean the the career development or i

think that's given this is almost a must

for any workforce okay but communication

engagement listening as well as you know

getting the right people and develop

them we i guess you know that we call

that thailand management is is the the

key area people need to be invested they

are not just somebody who just do your

data and you know like i said it to

become like you mentioned administrative

so

so this is something which i i i'm going

to be very upfront for all business

leaders if hr to use eminent is is very

much administrative

and they don't have uh uh you know

opportunity for us for the strategic uh

initiative then for me i'll be upfront

to say please go and hire administrator

instead because you know the poor hr

her capability his or her capac you know

competency and knowledge is not being

put onto good use

so so if you ask about bad practice you

are treating each other i mean which is

already very bad very bad yes so but

that's really old school i mean when you

think about it just now you mentioned 30

years ago they call it what personnel

management

oh my goodness the word personnel sounds

really really

like uh

yeah it just doesn't have that human

touch to it that respect for human

beings

i mean but but that's last time right so

i like what you say the idea is that

we need to we start putting hr

higher and higher when it comes to

strategy not just about administration

comm and ban and all these things that

oh so

uh you need to take leave could find hr

and things like that right but it's

really the idea of partnership together

with the strategic management

and see how we can bring the business

forward with the talent that we have

right i strongly believe in that as well

oh that's good that's good so so if i i

decide i want to retire can i just you

know come and be the coffee lady and

learn coaching skills

one last question okay i have one last

question and and really depends uh

really show

um

really curious about the idea of uh the

future

i mean he just has so many things we've

just been hit by covet where now well

this the

cio is actually the covit right the

chief the one that really brings

everything i t now is really the idea

that because covid happened and yeah

everything now is online and all that

and now we're coming out of it and all

and i see we all see this thing called

the great resignation a lot of people

are just feeling different

feeling differently about work and

there's so much uncertainty in the

future

if i want you to kind of like help us to

understand and help us just clear a

little bit of the fork what is the

landscape of hr in the future and how as

a leader and hr do i adapt

um

if if i'm allowed a bit more time on

this

question

actually interestingly my recent masters

in global hr which i completed thank

goodness i did a dissertation actually

on this the

link between the

extrinsic motivating factors

to

that the organization provides

and and is influenced on the employees

loyalty so the four factors that

actually was

were quite frequently mentioned during

the current time mental well-being

work-life balance of course salary and

compensation benefits

that one is given

yeah and then there's job security so

yeah um i part of my dissertation um of

course you know i think you will know

that i need to send a survey out easy so

i had about uh i send out to

i use a snowball method but i know it

was really i received about 175 replies

wow uh 175 reply which is quite a decent

uh assessment you know and i i set the

parameters to anyone who is currently

working in singapore so i i don't care

your e-bus you're a singaporean or

whatever as long as you're working fine

okay and interestingly

out of the four

factors

the

salary and compensation will never run

away that is what that one and mental

well-being are the most critical

components in

uh uh you know retaining your talents

they are the ones that influenced the

most

and i think the great resonation as we

have read okay

um although not exactly that evidence in

singapore but i think it's still you

know hovering on the edge

is there a lot of employers

uh uh that they are still regarding one

hr as administrator two employees as

numbers

yes i hate to say this but i'm just

being right out front here

so

yeah so so so you know employees yes

they are paid to do their job but you

know we also need to as hr we also need

to start thinking about their well-being

well and and and business owners leaders

rights needs i think that hey you know

um employers also are human right they

they are very stressed out because you

know kovak they are they they feel

insecure

um

uh some of them maybe have family

members who have lost jobs and they have

a much

larger financial burden that they're

afraid they might not be able to fulfill

so

you know mental well

challenges and

that actually you know

impact you know their their overall

well-being and their performance at the

end is what is that that those are what

traffic yeah what drive their

performance are all affected so of

course you know

everyone has a breaking point so quite

honestly can't really blame

the employees because these i i these

are these are like you know a boiling

cauldron that has been boiling for the

longest time i believe even i think b

even before kovac is just you know

exploded so so so i think um

the the

the future is

leaders and leaders need to start seeing

hr as as as strategic people because we

are the one that are closest to to

people and generally we also

are trained and by experience we also

learn to

understand

uh you know employees and how to

actually

navigate the employees the talents you

know to the company's uh uh you know

business direction correct

they are not just robots and just follow

blindly what is the best way to you know

to

attract good talents how to develop yes

very cliche for hr but sadly these are

critical to any company's uh growth so

and in terms of uh employers to look at

overall well-being of employees and that

includes engagement a lot of development

which is what at the moment at golf uh

for the next uh 12 24 and the five years

is what we are uh we are implementing as

well various like you know mental

well-being focus

um and some there's some diversity

inclusion and how to get the right

talents how to develop

um you know your internal good

performance

creating pathways creating uh career

pathways for them being vertical or

lateral uh you know so so they don't

feel that they're being cocooned you

know or imprisoned in in in their in

their forwards of their role and then

you know feeling very trapped you see so

so that this is what this is what a lot

of um i think that employees or shall we

say the workforce are looking at also at

the same time

uh in any organization today uh one one

thing i i i articulate during my latest

week was that in any organization you

have you can easily see four generations

working in one organization

from boomers to the genzek

correct so so so

before generation because that is there

are characteristic trace differences

correct

so communication engagement can be very

disconnected disjointed so i think as hr

we as you correctly put it jason one

thing which i also emphasize to our

leaders is that we are partners we are

not mere

operation

executors or administrators we are

partners and that's what i'm also

guiding and coaching my team to be we

are partners so we provide guidance we

provide advice you know we we help you

to understand you know what are the

needs at the end of course as leaders

managers you make you make a decision

but at least we we steer you and guide

you and give you you know um good ideas

you know on on how best to actually uh

manage your good performance how to

manage your your staff how to nurture

and coach how to bring in the right

person how to build your talents

so

we are partners in many many different

forms as a hr so that that is uh uh one

um you know one of the ways where we

want the four generations to be able to

work together despite the differences of

characteristic traits even like small

initiative hr you know is also part of

uh partnership with the leaders managers

how you know creating things like

uh little projects mentorship now mentor

mentorship coaching

learning culture is what i firmly

believe in i think you you appreciate

that because i i totally yeah correct

because our skills all our skills in

today's context we we need to accept

that in today's vuca well

well it can go it can be quite obsolete

the next six to 12 months so having

mentorship and doing reversing mentor

you know it helps

one it helps

enhance the engagement amongst all four

generations okay to help them work

better with one another to understand

each other not just colleagues but as a

person

right and at the same time

it also helps them to be more self-aware

start learning more about themselves

which is very helpful as they you know

ascend their their career

and eventually even become leaders

themselves

right

so so these are some of uh you know the

future so apart from the mental and

health wellbeing i think we have covered

very much of it they are direct impact

and they and this is these are elements

that are really very very important

so

um

but i must say that um the data driven

yes it's important correct i think we

would all agree that uh business leaders

look at

data and numbers

to make decisions correct but i think if

you ask me this is just my personal view

but i find that they have disconnect

that data

you know from the human

from the human touch

earlier like i mentioned

humans intrinsic motivation cannot be

quantifiable at all you how are you

going to measure that right so so yes

you may have data on something but i

think shr we need to dig deeper we we

can't just take things

on at face value and take surface okay

that's it this is our data law that's it

long but dig deeper and find out what

you know how and why

and then if the data is actually as

accurate as you know the employees how

they perceive

yes

so i think these are these are some of

uh what i see now for for the you know

the future of the hr

as well as the future of uh you know the

leaders and environment and i think uh

one of the most important elements that

we all have to hr leaders employees all

of us is that we need to be very agile

we need to be flexible enough

to adapt as and when and it's going to

be a lot more frequent now we need to

accept change

uh a lot faster and we need to learn how

to embrace uh we can't just say oh the

old methods work you know we we must

explain to workforce forget it

that was what i i said you know don't

waste time because today's context we

are talking about very different working

generation working mindset the value

system have changed because of kovic as

evident from my dissertation so because

i have the data anyway so i would say

that these are some of um the the

new trends

that uh we should be looking uh you know

in the future to come and and and also

not to just

wholly depending on the digital um

digitization you know the virtual

communication

uh there has to be also just as there's

a need to balance uh you know

data-driven

um

business decisions

uh but that uh with people with

employees there's also a need to balance

that engagement between

virtual engagement and the face-to-face

you know even

if you can't do face-to-face a simple

phone call

you know to just have a chat or just

clarify things is way better than just

email

or you know i just wait for you to see

what time you're free on zoom or

whatever you know

yes so the communication constant uh

that the human touch i would say

uh is is extremely prevalent in any of

the trends that's actually upcoming

yeah i like i like that uh i mean it

really ends up really well the idea that

as hr we are we need to customize our

approach now uh especially now where

things change so fast people's needs

within the company if sally is there at

her 25 and when she's 35 it's a

different need at 45 it's a different

need as hr we need to understand that

and that sometimes they won't tell it to

you in a data point they'll tell you to

you that hey you know what i have two

kids now i really wanted to climb last

time but now i'm actually quite

satisfied right those are the things

that we as hr we kind of need to help

bridge the gap between management teams

and us and understand a human aspect and

i like the idea that bringing back the

human touch because

that's been robbed

since covet and bringing back that

simple phone call that simple basket

that's simple hey i send you something

these are all the human touch that

people really

know that the company cares and not just

about everything it's about just results

i think i think uh yes yes in a sense

but earlier on i uh remember i also say

that there has to be a balance like

definitely guys

employ sometimes employees might mistake

they they misinterpret oh everything

employee first

no no no yeah

so at the end of the day yes employee is

important we we all admit we all

acknowledge that but we also need to

acknowledge that the company must be

healthy because

it's like i'm sure you have kids if you

if you are not healthy you don't have a

decent job that you are able to provide

your kids

would suffer isn't it definitely that

that is the analogy i use when it comes

to like you know company employees so

that that is how at least when you're

transparent with them in this manner

they know okay so yes you know our

wealth is important but we must make

sure that company makes money as well so

at least they are very clear that on the

vision they know what their obligations

are they know what to what to do where

to go because it's for the sake not just

for themselves you know a bigger bonus

or better welfare or that but also for

their team members so that is how how

how it should be

yeah totally so the idea of just driving

results every company has a certain

uh core

reason why they are around to serve and

value it to the industry right and

that's the results part but then we do

that through people

we will never be able to say that we

overweight on one because both are

important correct

all right thank you so much jennifer

it's been such a pleasure uh having you

on this podcast hr unfiltered really

hearing your thoughts as a thought

leader

thank you so much appreciate it any last

words for those people who are listening

uh

thanks so much jason i mean i i i am

flattered

and honored

uh i feel very privileged to be here

and um i i'm really happy to share my

experience not that it's you know that

vas i'm sure i have a lot of hips with a

lot better ideas that i can learn from

but for hr my last words i would say

if you choose

for all of you out there if you choose

hr as a profession

you need to be very sure that this is

really what you want to do long term

because you know as hr

we

directly have an impact on people and

the last thing we want is to

you know have a negative impact on

anyone

our objective of being in this

profession is to inspire

that's how i see hr

fantastic beautiful thank you so much

and for those people tuning in uh tune

in some more for hr unfiltered with

other

leaders and thought leaders out there so

we can learn and all

overall

improve this whole industry of hr to

make it really more on the forefront

right in the background yes thank you so

much guys for tuning in thank you

jennifer

thank you so much

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